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Poster: cashel Date: May 23, 2004 5:36am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

I will defend any person,s right to free speech. But , I will attack anyone who LIES. The movie is just a BIG LIE.Putman would never have spoken in such a vile manner

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffakb Date: May 23, 2004 7:22am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

To say that the work is just lies is too simplistic. There is a real political point being made, I hope that you are able to catch it. The style of this type of parody revolves around making the speaker appear hypocritical, popular and political culture are replete with it. Realizing it in moving images is rare because it takes skill but its everywhere if you look at political cartoons, standup comedy, theater, etc.

Pat Robertson took your case to the Supreme Court and lost. There is a reason why that's the case, I don't think you understand why it is.

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Poster: cashel Date: May 23, 2004 7:57am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

That film was NOT parody. PARODY DOES NOT USE LIES. You say that I am simplistic because I do not recognise that lies are necessary to bolster an argument. Yes, I am, and will ALWAYS FIGHT LIERS. You mention the P.Roberterson case.I will you an example when truth was the winner. Long ago, Henry Ford was one of the most powerful men in the USA and he published a hate magazine that was filled with lies. One man challenged Ford who ceased publication and never tried again. LIES BREED LIKE MAGGOTS and sophisticated apoligists are not funny

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffakb Date: May 23, 2004 10:55am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

You say that I am simplistic because I do not recognise that lies are necessary to bolster an argument.

No, that is not what I said. I said to maintain that the work is soley lies is simplistic because it contains a political point, which is quite different. I did not say you are simplistic, I said the arguement is simplistic. As for the part about being necessary to bolster an arguement, I have no idea where you created that from, I said nothing resembling that.

In my previous post I tried to point out that whether or not a parody contains "lies" this form is a deep and valuable part of political culture.

For example, check out this recent Doonsebury strip. It contains a made up conversation between President Bush and Condi Rice, much like thousands and thousands of other comic strips and political cartoons. I think it resembles "Come Join the Fun" in that it a) makes a political point based on "lies" and b) it is obvious that the principals did not say what is attributed to them.

Is it just "lies" and thus worthy of contempt? If not, what distinguishes it from "Come Join the Fun"? If yes, why do you think every major newspaper in the US carries this comic strip everyday?

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Poster: cashel Date: May 23, 2004 12:12pm
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

I should have stated ,in very first post that my opinions were based on my Australian Experience. Conditions are vastly different in USA where parody has different connatations and THAT film may be legally acceptable. However. I was mainly arguing on the basis of common standards of decency. I would be outraged if such a film was made about me ,family, friends or any one whom I respected. Nobody has challenged the basic premise of my review, that the film established a precedent.. NO,if you hate somebody, you make a film about them that contains LIES< LIES and more lies. Warning:do not try in australia

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Poster: ridetheory Date: May 23, 2004 12:39pm
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

I was mainly arguing on the basis of common standards of decency. I would be outraged if such a film was made about me ,family, friends or any one whom I respected.


You could be as outraged as you wanted, but if you try to impinge on the creator's right to make that movie, that is CENSORSHIP!

Right now, the Walt Disney Company is outraged at Michael Moore for making a movie that makes fun of President Bush. So they're blocking the release of the film. Certainly doesn't make it right.

Nobody has challenged the basic premise of my review, that the film established a precedent.. NO,if you hate somebody, you make a film about them that contains LIES< LIES and more lies.


First off, your review does not support or even mention the "basic premise" that it sets a precedent. Second, nobody involved hates George Putnam, and third, everyone is telling you that we already KNOW it's a LIE.

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Poster: cashel Date: May 23, 2004 1:36pm
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

Why don,t you tell Mr.Moore to put an enemy,s face on the "come,,,fun.." movie (instead of the hated MrPutman )? I bet the explosion (contempt) would be felt around the civilised decent world.

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Poster: ridetheory Date: May 23, 2004 1:54pm
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

Why don,t you tell Mr.Moore to put an enemy,s face on the "come,,,fun.." movie (instead of the hated MrPutman )?


I have no idea what that sentence is supposed to mean. I wouldn't do that because... um... er... because it is an incoherent question.

(Are you drunk or something?)

I bet the explosion (contempt) would be felt around the civilised decent world.


Actually, the "contempt" for Mr. Moore's film, in which he expressly exposes his enemy's face, has manifested itself as a Palme d'Or trophy at the Cannes Film Festival.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1113884.htm

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Poster: cashel Date: May 23, 2004 2:11pm
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

You couldn,t understand my reply. This is the standard response when there is no answer. However, I will reply in the simplest terms. I said that you would not dare to suggest to Mr Moore(the subject of your previous post)that he take the "come have fun" film., retain the lying audio, but delete the images of Putman and replace with video images of an enemy and have a new hate film. I stated that this would be greeted with contempt. I did NOT refer to moore,s prize winning film. You will never be lonely..most of the insults appear to come from your friends

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Poster: ridetheory Date: May 23, 2004 2:48pm
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

HUH? Why would Michael Moore do that, exactly? And why would the results prove anything?

This is a straw man argument -- you set up the rules for that argument, therefore, you get to knock me down. "Why don't you..." There is no answer for that, except I would not suggest Michael Moore do that, or any analogous situation, because it makes no sense at all.

"Hey, Michael, me amigo, why don't you put new video on top of this audio? Keep George Putnam's voice, and put somebody else's face on it?"

"Well, Ridetheory, I won't do that because it's a really seriously RANDOM request, and it would accomplish nothing, but thank you for asking."

"I'm sorry, Michael. Some guy put me up to it. I'm so embarrassed now."

I am quite enjoying this argument, but we've been at it all day and I'm going to bed now. I suggest that you do the same.

This post was modified by ridetheory on 2004-05-23 21:48:17

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Poster: Spuzz Date: May 23, 2004 2:42pm
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

This is become more stranger as it goes along.

Are you saying you're lonely Jack?

I never started this to FLAME you Jack, as I said, I just was concerned about an overly negative review that verged on flaming, Thought I knew you better, apparently not.

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Poster: cashel Date: May 23, 2004 2:51pm
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

SPUZZ I did NOT say that I was lonely. I did suggest to the previous person that he would find friends who would agree with him. THANK YOU FOR STARTING THIS DISCUSSION..Your help is greatly appreciated. I have now gathered sufficient information for my magazine article.. Thanks again, spuzz,

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Poster: Spuzz Date: May 23, 2004 3:04pm
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

LOL @ "Magazine article"

right.

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Poster: ridetheory Date: May 23, 2004 3:08pm
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

Pataquès Cahiers du Cinema, no doubt.

(Or as we call the English edition: Incoherent Cinema Notes)

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Poster: ridetheory Date: May 23, 2004 9:15am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

Are you honestly comparing Henry Ford's publication of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion to Come Join the Fun?

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Poster: cashel Date: May 23, 2004 9:26am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

YES.. and ALSO THE OTHER LIES IN FORD,s MAGAZINE

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Poster: ridetheory Date: May 23, 2004 9:52am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

Inspired by your words, I have started work on a new clip film, "Let the Eagle Soar". In it, I will use as the soundtrack John Ashcroft singing his twisted patriotic song, and I will couple it with as much imagery of Nazis and Fascism as I can cull from the archive. Therefore, I will be LYING, because Ashcroft has never (openly) espoused these viewpoints, and I will be a LIAR for twisting his words around. And the final credit will read "SPECIAL THANKS to jack2, who IS MY INSPIRATION".

Which will be a LIE.

Here is the opening credit sequence in animated gif form -- what do you think of it?

http://scribble.com/ridetheory/eagle.gif

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Poster: cashel Date: May 23, 2004 10:08am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

Why give special thanks to me for inspiration if as you have said that is a lie. Your opening credits are impressive and could be the beginning of an excellent film. I cannot comment further as I do not have sufficient information(for a start, I have no know anything about Ashcroft,s song) I trust that at all times in the production of the film, you will be using your honesty and integrity and thus your success is deserved

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Poster: ridetheory Date: May 23, 2004 10:25am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

No it won't, because throughout the entire thing, I WILL BE LYING. My film will be almost exactly like Come Join the Fun. A GREAT, BIG LIE! And I want to thank you for helping me see the light, jack2.

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Poster: cashel Date: May 23, 2004 10:32am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

I am sure that your new film will be very popular and praised by many,many people

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Poster: summerseve Date: May 24, 2004 12:05am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

I can't wait to see this! What a wonderful idea. Ashcroft is just begging for "the treatment"...and the opening looks perfect. Please notify us here when it's done!

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Poster: ridetheory Date: May 24, 2004 11:49am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

I could use help culling the clips -- any suggestions?

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Poster: ridetheory Date: May 23, 2004 5:53am
Forum: opensource_movies Subject: Re: To Jack, re 'Come Join The Fun'.

But as an obviously edited film, it is an example of free speech. It took Putnam's words to tell the truth as the FILM MAKER sees it, and I'll defend free speech to the end.

And you seem to have dropped the whole "venomous" thing -- could that be because it was a FACTUAL ERROR?

And weren't you supposed to be ignoring any further posts from me? Wouldn't that now be another FACTUAL ERROR?

This post was modified by ridetheory on 2004-05-23 12:53:08

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